I have had a question in my mind for some time over the many instances in the scriptures which tell us that baptism is the key to being saved in the kingdom of God. For example, when Christ appears to the Nephites and teaches them His doctrine:
And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God.
And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. (3 Nephi 11:33-34)
I have often thought, “What about the temple? Aren’t the temple ordinances, and particularly being sealed to your spouse in the temple (or celestial marriage), required for entrance into God’s kingdom also?”
I read some material somewhere this past week that helped resolve this question.
Both baptism and celestial marriage are required to enter into the kingdom of God, but in differing degrees of inheritance. Both of these ordinances are called new and everlasting covenants (see D&C 22:1 and D&C 132:4). They are the only ordinances to be so named because they permit us to enter different portions of God’s kingdom. Baptism is required to enter the celestial kingdom (D&C 76:51-52). Everyone so baptized, and worthy, may enter there. In addition to baptism, celestial marriage is required to enter into the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, and receive a fulness and exaltation (D&C 132:19). So, in a sense, one or the other ordinance can be said as the key necessary to enter into the kingdom of God, depending on whether we’re talking about the front door or our throne room.
It is also interesting to note that these two ordinances are exclusive in that they are the only two ordinances of the gospel that invoke the titles of the three members of the Godhead—”in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost” (D&C 20:73). Perhaps this is the case because all three members of the Godhead dwell in the celestial kingdom (D&C 76:62, 77, 86), and thus all three may be required for authorization to pass from one area to another in that exalted sphere.
Excellent post……….I always learn something from this site…..thanks for sharing and keep up the good work!
Celestial Marriage is not the key to entering into God’s kingdom. God’s Kingdom is the Celestial Kingdom. The entrance is baptism and Christ is the gate keeper. Celestial Marriage is an ordinance reserved for those who are already members of God’s kingdom. You cannot have an eternal marriage without having a baptism into the kingdom.
Celestial Marriage is the key to eternal progression and entrance into the highest degree of the Celestial Glory. You cannot have eternal progress without a companion to be there with you. It just doesn’t work. Gender is an eternal principle and there will continue to be genders in the next life, just as there were in the previous life. Man is not complete without the woman, neither is woman complete without the man. So together we go on in eternal progression, ever growing, never ending. I hope this clears up the matter that Celestial Marriage is NOT required to enter into God’s presence and dwell with Him forever in His kingdom.
The way I have come to understand it:
Baptism is the ordinance that allows us to live with God [Celestial Kingdom],
Temple sealing is the ordinance that allows us to live like God [Exaltation].
What will happen to my daughter, who is baptized, has her endowment, but is not married? Will she not be able to go to the Celestial Kingdom? I realize the significance of celestial marriage, but I find it hard to believe that someone as worthy as my daughter who is not married, but otherwise worthy, will be excluded from the celestial kingdom. You better start looking for her a temple worthy husband. She lives in West Jordan, and knows more about sports than most Utah guys she has met. That, in addition to her endowment, should get her some place in the celestial kingdom.
Paul
You are exactly right Bryce, and I said what I did to get you to point that out. An unmarried, endowed person can still go to the Celestial Kingdom. Albeit not to the highest level. Your headline specified Baptism and Temple Marriage. Thanks also for mentioning Sheri Dew, I should have. She may be the best example of this.
Paul
I submit the following, which I know will not be popular:
1.) The Kingdom of God is any degree of glory.
2.) Anyone who enters any degree of glory is cleansed from all sin though the atonement of Christ (you can not pay for your own sins and enter any degree of glory). Salvation is a free gift to those who receive it through baptism. Only the son’s of perdition remain “filthy still.”
3.) Baptism is required to enter the Kingdom of God (at any degree). In Nephi vision, those who have not been baptised are on the other side of the river.
4.) What determines what glory a person receives is what law a person is willing to live – See D&C 88.
5.) Anyone worthy of a degree of glory will not be deprived because of lack of opportunity.
-David
The physical place that is the Telestial Kingdom is the Earth in a state of Telestial Being. I do not fully understand it, but the Earth will be made into multiple degrees of glory, being the Celestial Kingdom on one plane of existence, the Terrestrial Glory on another level of perfection, and the Telestial Kingdom as well. Outer Darkness, I believe, is the state of being where all light brings pain, so the damned seek out the depths of space as far from light and glory as they can. Those that have Telestial Bodies will be in pain if they pass into the level of the Terrestrial Kingdom. Likewise for those in the Terrestrial that wish to go into the Celestial Kingdom. Those in the Celestial Kingdom will have bodies capable of dwelling in all glories, as they please, but will be happiest in the Celestial Kingdom.
Bryce:
I would like to dialoge on this but I am somewhat limited on time today.
The problems come in to this topic because of understanding what time a scripture is referring to, for example someone may reject something while in the flesh, but later accept it, and receive a glory.
Regarding suffering, the penalty for sin is physical and spiritual death FOREVER MORE – FOR EVER. We can suffer for our own sins forever and we will never be forgiven. We can not ever pay the penalty in full not matter what we suffer. Only Christ can pay the penalty in full. And this is done thru the atonement. And when it is done, it is done in full, it is called salvation (saved from physical and spiritual death). The sign of the acceptance of salvation is baptism. At the judgement, if a persons rejects his baptism (that was done in person or done for him) he is rejecting the work of Christ and becomes a son of perdition. You can not reject Christ at the Judgement and gain salvation. And there are not two ways to be forgiven of your sins (by your own suffering or by Christ’s suffering), there is only one way.
In short, I don’t expect to change anyones mind with this short assertion, but as you study the gospel if you keep this understanding tucked back in the mind, you will find those sharp edges of the puzzle that don’t quite fit, they will go away. And I will tell you, when you understand this, it’s like a gate you will go through that will all of a sudden bring a flood of other understandings. I don’t usually bear my testimony on line, but this is my experience.
If you would like to know what it takes to get into any kingdom, the temple is the template. See what it takes to get into the telestrial level of the temple, baptism is among the requirements. If you want to know what it takes to get to the terrestrial kingdom, what does it take or what do you get in the terrestrial room? And the same for the Celestial Kingdom. And of course for exaltation, the sealing room. This is pure LDS doctrine. Now the teachings we receive today in the temple are a abbreviated representation of all of the requirements for each kingdom, but we can get the picture if we pay attention.
Do you get it?
-David
Bryce SAID:
“We are told that those in the telestial kingdom will be feeling God’s consequences, wrath, and suffering for being thrust down to hell (v. 84, 104-106) but this can’t be a place necessarily because we’re also told the glory of the telestial surpasses all understanding (v. 89). That is why I believe it is more a psychological hell.”
This is an example of the problem of time. When the above person dies, thy are thrust down to hell, hell being spirit prison. But then at the judgement they inherit the Telstial Kingdom.
I don’t want to dilute this discussion to much, but I think that there is more than just a “psychological hell.” May I recommend my two short chapters on “Glory” and “Resurrection.” Here is the LINK
-David
Otherwise how do we reconcile the many palces in scripture that say something like: “raised to endless happiness to inherit the kingdom of God, or to endless misery to inherit the kingdom of the devil, the one on one hand, the other on the other—“ Alma 41:4.
There are two kingdoms, the Kingdom of God (with 3 degrees of glory), or the Kingdom of the Devil.
-David
David:
I think that the “Temple as a template” example isn’t quite the truth.
We are told that liars, murders, lovers of lies, etc. will be those in the Telestial Kingdom. I don’t think those qualities are the same as what we see in the Temple ceremony.
In my view the kingdoms of glory are not made up, or divided by lingering degrees of sin, but what law you are willing to live. In the 88th section of D&C it clearly says why one person goes to one kingdom, and why people go to another.
Again, I don’t expect to change anyones mind here, I’m just sharing. 😎
-David
“So it will be with those who are damned [in spirit prison] in the way that I have described and who are consigned to torment. They will remain in that condition, according to the enormity of their offenses, until punishment will be meted out to them sufficiently to bring them to a condition that they will receive the Gospel of salvation. That Gospel which is taught to us will be taught to them, and they will have an opportunity of obeying it in their damned condition and through repentance will receive will salvation.” (George Q. Cannon-Gospel Truth pg. 62)
Taken from New Cool Thang
-David
Justin:
Your objection is my very point. 😎 Do you not believe there is a correlation between the Telestial room in the temple, and the Telestial Kingdom?
I don’t want to seem argumentative, but in the spirit of brotherhood, may I argue this point a little?
Here is D&C 76:
” 106 These are they [Telestial beings] who are cast down to ahell and suffer the wrath of cAlmighty God, until the fulness of times, when Christ shall have subdued all enemies under his feet, and shall have perfected his work;
107 When he [Christ] shall deliver up the kingdom, and present it unto the Father, spotless, saying: I have covercome and have dtrodden the ewine-press falone, even the wine-press of the fierceness of the wrath of Almighty God.”
Notice He delivers it up “spotless.” This is the covenant from the pre-existance.
-David
“However, “these [Telestial beings] all shall bow the knee, and every tongue shall confess . . . that Jesus Christ is Lord” (v. 110; Philip. 2:9-11). This obeisance and confession will come sometime during the process of preparing to be “heirs of salvation” (v. 88). 29 This cleansing process involves their spirits’ being called up and judged unworthy of resurrection at the beginning of the Millennium (D&C 88:100-1), then spending one thousand years in hell suffering for the sins they earlier refused to repent of, and learning to obey at least a telestial law (vv. 84-85, 105-7). Once they are cleansed and prepared, they shall be resurrected and placed in the telestial kingdom, the glory of which “surpasses all understanding” (v. 89). 30 No longer liars, sorcerers, whoremongers, adulterers, “they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.”
Studies in Scripture, Vol. 1, by Kent P. Jackson, Robert L. Millet, LARRY E. DAHL
TELESTIAL SALVATION. Those who enter into the telestial kingdom, where their glories differ as do the stars of heaven in their magnitude, and who are innumerable as the sands of the seashore, are the ungodly, the filthy who suffer the wrath of God on the earth, who are thrust down to hell where they will be required to pay the uttermost farthing before their redemption comes. These are they who receive not the gospel of Christ and consequently could not deny the Holy Spirit while living on the earth. They have no part in the first resurrection and are not redeemed from the devil and his angels until the last resurrection, because of their wicked lives and their evil deeds. Nevertheless, even these are heirs of salvation, but before they are redeemed and enter into their kingdom, they must repent of their sins, and receive the gospel, and bow the knee, and acknowledge that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer of the world
Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 2, by Bruce R. McConkie, Joseph Fielding Smith
Here is a quote by Brigham Young:
“We will bring up all the inhabitants of the earth, except those who have sinned against the Holy Ghost, and save them in some kingdom where they will receive more glory and honor than ever the Methodist contemplated. This should be a comfort and a consolation to all the inhabitants of the earth. They will not save themselves, millions have not had a chance, and millions now living, through the strength of their traditions, will not do it; their consciences and feelings are bound up in their systems and creeds, whereas if they felt as independent as they should feel, they would break loose and receive the truths; but they will live and die in bondage, and we calculate to officiate for them. Many a man I know of, who has fallen asleep, we have been baptized for, since the Church was organized—good, honest, honorable men, charitable to all, living good, virtuous lives. We will not let them go down to hell; God will not. The plan of salvation is ample to bring them all up and place them where they may enjoy all they could anticipate. 14:97.”
Discourses of Brigham Young, CHAPTER XXXVI
I really don’t know if baptism will be required for entrance into even the Telestial Kingdom, but I can see David Littlefield’s theory as plausible. Certainly during the 1000 years of the Millenium there would be time to do baptisms for all of them. We now do baptisms for as many of our ancestors as possible without any knowledge of which kingdom they will end up in. I don’t think they will automatically qualify for Celestial Glory just because we are performing the ordinances for them. Those waiting in Spirit Prison need to be cleansed, even if they will only inherit the Telestial Glory-I think it is reasonable to conclude that they will need to receive baptism to get there. This is just my opinion…
Baptism gives you the following benefits, so long as you live up to the covenants you make:
1. Entrance into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints
2. A remission of sins for which you have repented through faith in Jesus Christ
3. Preparation to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost
4. A demonstration of obedience to God’s law.
5. Passage from Spirit Prison to Spirit Paradise.
6. Entrance to the Celestial Kingdom.
7. Eligibility to renew our covenant through partaking worthily of the Sacrament.
For item one, it was established by Joseph Smith that baptism by the proper authority is required for people to become members of the church. There were some who were baptized prior to the formation of the church that were rebaptized specifically for acceptance into the church.
Item two indicates that this is the first ordinance of the gospel. When you are properly prepared through Faith in Christ and proper repentance, your sins are washed away through the atonement of Christ.
Item three is taught by the missionaries as the next step in the first four principles and ordinances of the gospel. You cannot receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost without being baptized.
Item four is taught by Nephi as the reason that Jesus Christ Himself was baptized. He showed obedience to God and an example for man.
Item five is the reason that temple work is so important and why you hear stories of ancestors appearing to their offspring to ask that their temple work be done. Without a proper baptism, the spirit is damned from progressing. That is the defining aspect of Spirit Prison. It was Jesus Christ that opened the way between the two realms and the preaching of the gospel began among the unbaptized deceased.
Item six seems to be the point of confusion for this posting. Once you have had your sins forgiven, and have demonstrated your obedience to God, how could you expect to end up in any lesser kingdom than the Celestial Glory? It is true that once you have been baptized you can still end up in a lesser glory, but only by failing to live up to the covenant of baptism. It should be pointed out that not everyone will accept the ordinances performed in their name. Everyone will have at least one genuine opportunity to accept the gospel. To me that means that the gospel must be explained to everyone to the point that they understand the concepts of Faith in Jesus Christ, Repentance, and Baptism. If a person accepts these principles of the gospel, and the ordinance of baptism is performed, they have met the criteria for entrance into the Celestial Kingdom. They are clean and obedient. How could they then be kept from God’s presence?
As to the other kingdoms, I have been taught that the Telestial Kingdom is essentially for those that are comfortable with the presence of the Holy Ghost, but uncomfortable in the presence of Christ. They have not accepted Him as their Redeemer. The Terrestrial Kingdom is for those that are comfortable in the presence of Jesus Christ. They have accepted Him as their Redeemer, but do not meet the criteria of being clean and obedient. Here also are those that do not live up to the covenants they make with God, including the covenant of baptism. While they may have been baptized in their life, or accepted the baptism from the Spirit World, that covenant was broken by them in some way. Not to the point of being cast out, but to the point that they would be uncomfortable in the presence of the Almighty God.
From the descriptions of the lesser kingdoms, it should be clear that to obtain the Celestial Kingdom we must be clean and obedient to God’s Laws. The first law to obey is baptism. This covenant of baptism commits us to live all of God’s laws as we are taught them from God’s appointed messenegers, which includes angels, church leaders, sunday school teachers, and the promptings of the Holy Ghost. If we fail to live up to that covenant, we are not worthy of God’s presence and cannot enter the Celestial Kingdom.
And as to item seven, which was added for completeness, worthily partaking of the sacrament is the equivalent of being rebaptized as far as the covenant with God is concerned. It keeps us clean and obedient so that we are continually worthy to enter the Celestial Kingdom. This does not mean that all sins are easily swept aside by the mere partaking of the sacrament. It means that once you have repented of your sins, whether that require an apology to God, the the Church, or to those you have offended, or all three, once the repentance process is complete, those sins are washed away. The way we show our commitment to this process is the Sacrament.
If you have questions about any point of doctrine here, I would be happy to spend the time finding the sources for which my knowledge was obtained. I am confident that I have not strayed from church doctrine in the slightest or given any statement which cannot be backed up with canonized scripture.
Guys,
How about D & C 137:10. and I quote “And I also beheld that all children who die before they arrive at the years of accountability are saved in the celestial kingdom of heaven”. I don’t think I saw this mentioned in this thread yet. Baptism is not necessary for these children, yet they still go to the Celestial Kingdom.
Paul
I hate to keep this going and be picky, but according to McConkie “Not only will little children be saved in the Celestial Kingdom of God, but the will be heirs of exaltation in that kingdom. ” On this point the Prophet said: “They will there enjoy the fullness of that light, glory and intellignece, which is prepared in the celestial kingdom. . To inherit the fullness is to have exaltation. (In both cases the word fullness is in italics). So I guess I take a little bit of issue with your comment about them having to be married to receive exaltation. However, I am worried about the second half of your comment about single angels.
I understand I have a minority view, so I am not trying to push it on anyone, or to spark a hot debate.
I would go back to my original point that the temple is the templete of eternity. Simply look at Solomon’s temple for simplicity, but all temples follow the same format.
Each of the three levels correspond to one of the three degrees of glory. What goes on, the principles, covenants, and ordinances, in each level is what is required to achieve that level in the resurrection. This is the purpose of the temple.
The font was in the first section (can be thought of as the gate) of the Kingdom of God. The first section of the Kingdom of God is a Telestial glory. Any liars, murders, etc who receive a Telestial resurrection, will repent before that happens, and when they repent they shall be washed clean. Nobody is going to the Telestial kingdom until they accept their baptism.
I ask, can we then also go to the Celestial Kingdom, and skip the ordinances of the Terrestrial Kingdom (that is administered in the Terr. room) as well? If baptism is what is required to enter Celestial Kingdom, can we skip the rest? We are told in D&C 88 that if we receive any degree of a kingdom that over time we can receive a fulness thereof.
I don’t care about anyone’s view of the requirements of the Celestial kingdom, the only reason I commented on it is because without understanding that the temple is the template of eternity, it is the plan of salvation mapped out in stone, we miss a fantastic understanding that can otherwise be ours. When you get this, it will be an epiphany in your life, at least it was for me.
-David
The cleansing of sins comes only through Jesus Christ. People have to repent and ask for forgiveness and go through the repentance process. Not everyone is willing to do this. This does not mean that they are doomed for outer darkness. That is reserved only for those whose faith was once perfect in having a knowledge beyond a mere hope of the divinity of Christ, and afterwards turned against God and fought against His purposes, thereby rejecting the Holy Ghost and making it impossible for them to abide in even the lowest degree of the Telestial Kingdom. Since it is clear to me that not everyone will repent of their sins, and judging from the case of King David, there will remain stains of sin on some people throughout the eternities. These people are not evil enough to be cast off from into outer darkness, and so there must be a place reserved for them in the lesser kingdoms. Not everyone accepts the temple baptism done in their name. Not everyone accepts the gospel when it is presented to them in this life or the next. To think that these people belong in outer darkness would make my soul quake at the thought. No, they will be given a glory of happiness, but not a fullness of glory. They may not accept the atonement of Christ necessary to have a forgiveness of their sins, but they don’t have enough knowledge to become a Son of Perdition.
Children who die before the age of accountability demonstrated in the pre-existance that they have met the requirements to enter the Celestial Kingdom. The only reason they need to come to earth is to obtain a body. I have heard some say that righteous mothers will have their children returned to them during the millenium, at which point they will continue to grow and have the chance to get married. I do not know of this being gospel doctrine, but it is a nice thought. What is clear from the Proclamation to the World on the Family is that Families are eternal. In order to progress in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, everyone, child or not, will need an eternal companion. We do not, at this time, that I am aware of, arrange marriages for those who have passed on before the age of accountability. There will be an opportunity to fulfill all ordinances required for salvation when worthiness is not an issue. This applies to young children and missionaries and worthy church members alike. Just because the marriage was not accomplished in this life does not mean there won’t be an opportunity for such a union at a later time. How that happens and when is not said, nor is it important to know at this time. What is important to know is that everyone who does not achieve a Celestial Marriage in this life, through no fault of their own, will receive that opportunity. Were this not so, the plan of salvation would be frustrated. It is true that there are no single angels in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom. The way I understand it, if you are not in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, then there is no purpose in your marriage. This point of doctrine is not well illucidated, but it is clear that Celestial Marriage IS required for exaltation.
As for baptism being required for the Telestial Kingdom, I do not remember seeing the baptism of Adam portrayed in the ceremony. The fact that baptism is a prerequisite for the additional ordinances and endowments does not mean that it is necessary to obtain a degree of glory. Those in the Telestial Kingom may have rejected Christ completely. They do not fight against God, but they do not need to accept Christ. That is why the Holy Ghost is present in the Telestial Kingdom and Jesus Christ is not there. It is true that everyone will have an opportunity to accept or reject a baptism performed either in person or vicariously, but rejection of that baptism cannot be an automatic expulsion into outer darkness. God loves His children too much to cast so many into outer darkness.
David Carroll Said: “…outer darkness. That is reserved only for those whose faith was once perfect in having a knowledge beyond a mere hope of the divinity of Christ, and afterwards turned against God”
LITTLEFIELD SAYS: I would suggest that we have the same problem of time here, as discussed above.
The above is true NOW. But, that when a person stands at the judgment bar, he known as much as anyone can know. If he rejects it there, he is a son of perdition. If he accepts it, including his baptism, he receives a glory, based on the law he is willing to live. IMHO.
-David
First off, we have way to many Davids in this discussion 😎
I don’t mean to complicate this further, but David Carroll said regarding baptism: “5. Passage from Spirit Prison to Spirit Paradise.”
And again in the spirit of brotherly discussion, I know this is a common belief among us LDS, but I don’t believe it is true.
Why I do believe baptism is required to enter the Tel. Kingdom, I don’t believe it is required to enter the spirit paradise, nor is baptism for the dead required to move from prison to paradise. IMHO
-David
This discussion has gotten to the point where we are basically saying that we disagree on the points of doctrine. The only way to resolve these issues now is to appeal to those who can speak with authority which we will all recognize. A simple topic search on lds.org reveals the following link to an article from the July 2003 Ensign: http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=f318118dd536c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=f0791c90483eb010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&hideNav=1
In the article it indicates that baptism is a prerequisite to entering into the Kingdom of God and that the unbaptized dead reside in Spirit Prison. Even a cursory scan of this article clarifies for me that no one will be forced to accept baptism, baptism is essential for passage into Spirit Paradise, and that Christ opened the way for those in Spirit Paradise to preach the gospel to those in Spirit Prison so that they could accept or reject the vicarious baptism with the proper understanding of its significance. Without the ordinance of baptism, they are not in Spirit Paradise.
http://lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=d1ef9daac5d98010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____
As for the Kingdom’s of Glory, the church websites gives the criteria for entering into each kingdom. I have read through what is there. It does indicate that those in the Telestial Kingdom are those that rejected the gospel in the spirit world. They may have had opportunity on earth, but they rejected that as well. They reject the covenant of keeping God’s commandments, meaning that they have rejected baptism. It also says that they are redeemed from Spirit Prison as the last to be resurrected. The Telestial Kingdom is also explicitly stated as being thrust down to hell. There is no indication that acceptance of baptism is a requirement for being redeemed from Spirit Prison into the Telestial Kingdom. In fact, I believe it is fairly clear that the opposite is in fact true. They remain in Spirit Prison until the end because they have reject Christ and His baptism.
To further illustrate this point, the description of the Terrestrial Kingdom indicates that it is reserved for those who accepted the gospel on Earth, but were not faithful, as well as for those who rejected the Gospel on Earth, but later accepted it in the Spirit World. From this statement, it seems that baptism is required to enter the Terrestrial Kingdom. I had not thought of it that way before. But keep in mind that this kingdom is for those that were not faithful to that covenant or those that rejected it when it was offered to them in this life, who later accepted it.
If you still believe that baptism is required to enter into all Kingdoms of Glory, please read the gospel topic on the official church website, and find for us a quote which leads you to believe this. I do not mind being shown things in a new light. Something of this magnitude needs to be backed by something official from the church.
Like I said, I am not looking for converts to my view. I stand by what I have said.
-David
A comment from one of the earlier posts from David Carroll ->
Is it through baptism by water that one receives a remission of their sins? That is a popular notion in the LDS church but is it scriptural? According to 2 Nephi 31: 17:
“17 Wherefore, do the things which I have told you I have seen that your Lord and your Redeemer should do; for, for this cause have they been shown unto me, that ye might know the gate by which ye should enter. For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.
18 And then are ye in this strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life; yea, ye have entered in by the gate; ye have done according to the commandments of the Father and the Son; and ye have received the Holy Ghost, which witnesses of the Father and the Son, unto the fulfilling of the promise which he hath made, that if ye entered in by the way ye should receive.”
We receive a remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. This is the same thing that Christ taught when he visited the Nephites as found in 3 Nephi 12:1-2.
Receiving a remission of sins is the same as being sanctified. As we are taught, no unclean thing can enter into the kingdom of God. We must be sanctified before we can dwell in the Kingdom of God. That is why Nephi defined the remission of sins by the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost as the gate to the strait and narrow path that leads to eternal life. Baptism by water is only half a baptism according to Joseph Smith. It is also the core theme of the gospel as found in D&C 39:6:
“And this is my gospel—repentance and baptism by water, and then cometh the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost, even the Comforter, which showeth all things, and teacheth the peaceable things of the kingdom.”
There are a number of examples of this baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost in the Book of Mormon including the people of King Bengamin, Enos, Alma, and the 300 Lamanites in Helaman. It is requisite upon all who wish to dwell with God to be cleansed by fire and the Holy Ghost.
Spek
“Is it through baptism by water that one receives a remission of their sins? That is a popular notion in the LDS church but is it scriptural?”
Moro. 8: 11, 25
11 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.
• • •
25 And the first fruits of repentance is baptism; and baptism cometh by faith unto the fulfilling the commandments; and the fulfilling the commandments bringeth remission of sins;
D&C 55: 2
2 And then thou shalt be ordained by the hand of my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., to be an elder unto this church, to preach repentance and remission of sins by way of baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, the Son of the living God.
A of F 1: 4
4 We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, bFaith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
I would say there is sufficient scriptural evidence to say that one purpose of baptism is for the remission of sins. I just wanted to point out that the scriptures refer to the remission of sins as coming through the baptism of water in preparation for receiving the Holy Ghost. They also clearly state that this remission of sins comes through the baptism of fire. While I agree that baptism of water without the baptism of fire is only half a baptism, it is not correct to say there is no scriptural basis for stating that the baptism of water is not for the remission of sins. A person must repent first, and seek a remission of their sins through baptism.
My point is that it appears from my reading of the scripture that baptism by water is necessary but not sufficient for a remission of sins.
It states in Mormon 7:10:
“…if it so be that ye believe in Christ, and are baptized, first with water, then with fire and with the Holy Ghost…”
Again from 2 Nephi:
“For the gate by which ye should enter is repentance and baptism by water; and then cometh a remission of your sins by fire and by the Holy Ghost.”
I don’t know how much more clear it can get than this last quote. Can you leave out any step from this and get the expected results?
Spek
Very interesting discussions on baptism and salvation or exaltation. Perhaps there are degrees of baptism as taught in the rings of righteousness in 3 Nephi 17. Clearly those who sincerely repent and receive authoritative baptism by water for the first time receive a remission of their sins at that time. For most of us after this initial water baptism, sins occur in our lives again. If we repent and live to the point of having no more desire for evil (Mosiah 5:2), and never fall away again (Alma 23:6), and bury all our weapons of war (Alma 23:7; 24:16-17), are we not then baptized by fire and the Holy Ghost that “our hearts may be purified” (Mosiah 4:2)? Is not this baptism ultimately a temple endowment where we receive the fullness of the Holy Ghost (D&C 109:15) in preparation for the second comforter? Then we enter into the realm of calling and election made sure. Does this calling and election not ultimately require celestial marriage? I think the answer to this question answers your original question.
Question:
We as Mormons always talk about the Highest degree or Lowest degree in detail, but NEVER the middle and what it would be like in comparison . Example, we have THREE degrees within the Celestial Kingdom ( Temple Marriage for Highest- Baptism for the Lowest) so the 2nd level is left?? does the endowment get us into the second highest level??
Telestial kingdom As we’re also told the glory of the telestial surpasses all understanding. What about the Terrestrial Kingdom ?? so much is said about the Celestial Kingdom and Telestial Kingdom but not enough the about the Terrestrial and how life would compare. if the Telestial kingdom surpasses all understanding then the Terrestial must be alot better.
I did a recent post on related topics here: http://mormonmysticism.blogspot.com/2009/06/do-suffer-for-our-own-sins.html
I thought you might be interested.
I addresseed a couple questions; are the people of the three kingdoms of glory forgiven of their sins? Do they pay for their sins? And so on.
David