It seems to me that there is an undercurrent among the more liberal “new order” Mormon bloggers in the Bloggernacle lately that try to refute or dilute the concept that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the “one true church.” While I do believe that there is much truth that is found in all religions of the world and that there are a great many people who do not belong to the Church who are doing many good things, I also am firm in the belief that this church is God’s only true church upon the Earth today, with a fulness of God’s blessings, revelation, truth, power, priesthood, direction, inspiration, doctrine, authority, and saving ordinances, to the extent which He has deemed us worthy to receive them.
My belief in this comes first because the Lord Jesus Christ has spoken it:
And also those to whom these commandments were given, might have power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually… (D&C 1:30)
But also consider the words of God’s prophets. President Joseph Fielding Smith once said:
This priesthood and these keys were conferred upon Joseph Smith and Oliver Cowdery by Peter, James, and John, and by Moses and Elijah and others of the ancient prophets. They have been given to each man who has been set apart as a member of the Council of the Twelve. But since they are the right of presidency, they can only be exercised in full by the senior apostle of God on earth, who is the president of the Church.
May I now say—very plainly and very emphatically—that we have the holy priesthood and that the keys of the kingdom of God are here. They are found only in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
By revelation to Joseph Smith, the Lord said that these keys “belong always unto the Presidency of the High Priesthood” (D&C 81:2), and also, “Whosoever receiveth my word receiveth me, and whosoever receiveth me, receiveth those, the First Presidency, whom I have sent” (D&C 112:20).
In this same connection the Prophet Joseph Smith said: “You must make yourselves acquainted with those men who like Daniel pray three times a day toward the House of the Lord. Look to the Presidency and receive instruction.”
Now, brethren, I think there is one thing which we should have exceedingly clear in our minds. Neither the President of the Church, nor the First Presidency, nor the united voice of the First Presidency and the Twelve will ever lead the Saints astray or send forth counsel to the world that is contrary to the mind and will of the Lord. (President Joseph Fielding Smith, “Eternal Keys and the Right to Preside,” Ensign, July 1972, 87-88.)
In the most recent April 2008 General Conference President Henry B. Eyring of the First Presidency gave a talk on the subject entitled “The True and Living Church.” I have selected portions of his talk here:
This is the true Church, the only true Church, because in it are the keys of the priesthood. Only in this Church has the Lord lodged the power to seal on earth and to seal in heaven as He did in the time of the Apostle Peter. Those keys were restored to Joseph Smith, who then was authorized to confer them upon the members of the Quorum of the Twelve.
When the Prophet Joseph was murdered, the enemies of the Church thought that the Church would die. They thought it was the creation of a mortal man and therefore would perish with him. But their hopes were dashed. It was the true Church, and it also had the power to live on, even when those chosen for a time to lead it died.
We have seen today a demonstration that this is the true and living Church. The keys of the priesthood are held by mortals, but the way has been prepared by the Lord for the keys to remain functioning on the earth so long as the people exercise faith both that the keys are on the earth and that they have been passed on by the will of God to His chosen servants…
For us to sustain those who have been called today, we must examine our lives, repent as necessary, pledge to keep the Lord’s commandments, and follow His servants. The Lord warns us that if we do not do those things, the Holy Ghost will be withdrawn, we will lose the light which we have received, and we will not be able to keep the pledge we have made today to sustain the Lord’s servants in His true Church…
…we need to measure the depth of our gratitude for membership in the true Church of Jesus Christ…
We know from prophecy that not only will the true and living Church not be taken from the earth again, but it will become better. Our lives will be transformed for the better as we exercise faith unto repentance, always remember the Savior, and try ever harder to keep His commandments. The scriptures contain promises that when the Lord comes again to His Church, He will find it spiritually prepared for Him…
Additionally, it is through the Church and the ordinances which are in it that the blessings of the sealing power reach into the spirit world. This is a true and living Church, reaching even to those who are no longer living. As you have the faith to find the names of your ancestors, as you go to the house of the Lord to offer them vicarious ordinances, you sustain this great work, whose purpose is to offer salvation to all of Heavenly Father’s children who come into this world.
I would like to speak of some of the reasons I see for gratitude for a true and living Church… I will bear my testimony of how I have come to know that this is the true and living Church…
My testimony that this is the true and living Church began in my childhood. One of my earliest memories is of a conference meeting held not in some place like this but in a rented room of a hotel. A man was speaking whom I did not know, nor do I know his name today. I knew only that he was someone sent to our little district in the mission field by someone who held the priesthood. I do not know what he said. But I received a powerful, certain witness before I was eight, even before I was baptized, that I was hearing a servant of God in the true Church of Jesus Christ. It was not the rental room nor the size of the congregation, which was small, but it was a witness that I had been blessed at that moment to be in a meeting of the true Church…
I have seen the same miracle in the service of President Monson as he received the call to preside as the prophet and President of the Church and to exercise all the keys of the priesthood in the earth. Revelation and inspiration have come to him in my presence, which confirms to me that God is honoring those keys. I am an eyewitness. They are keys of a priesthood which is, in the Lord’s words, “without beginning or end.”
I bear you my solemn witness that this is the true and living Church of Jesus Christ. Heavenly Father will answer your fervent prayers to know that for yourself. You can have a witness that the calls which you sustained today were from God. Even more, you can know that within this Church, ordinances are performed which can cleanse souls and bind on earth and in heaven, as they were in the days of Peter, James, and John. Those keys and ordinances are now restored in their fulness through the Prophet Joseph Smith and have been passed on through his successors. Jesus is the Christ. He lives. I know that. I testify that Thomas S. Monson is His living prophet. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is true, and it lives on. I so testify in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. ((President Henry B. Eyring, “The True and Living Church,” Ensign, May 2008, 20-24.))
It is also my testimony that this is the one true church of Jesus Christ, the only church upon the face of the earth which has the authority of the priesthood of God to perform the redeeming and saving ordinances for all of mankind in the House of the Lord, and the only church which has living prophets and apostles called of God to lead a covenant people today, by modern revelation, in preparation for the Second Coming of the Savior. I know this by my witness of the Spirit. Jesus Christ is at the head of this church, and no other. We must not lose sight of this supernal truth in our cooperative efforts of ecumenism.
From the quotes that you list it seems that “the only true church” is understood as “the only institution possessing authority to perform essential ordinances”. How does this claim differ from “new order” Mormon bloggers’?
In what I hope will be helpful and in addition to my own essay on the subject a while back, I offer the following observation. Being an old guy and having been reading Mormon blogs and LDS email lists back to the early 90’s, I long ago learned that we have in the LDS blogging community two very distinct groups, the Iron Rodders and the Liahonas.
The subject of the One True Church is one that clearly divides these two groups. On the one hand, the Iron Rodders will always agree with you and with the authorities y0u quote. By the way, I am an Iron Rodder and agree with the point of your essay. I love your blog. I read it every day and appreciate your strong testimony, eloquently expressed. On the other hand, a large portion of the Bloggernacle is made up of the Liahonas, who “walk by the light of their own conceit.”
This conflict is not new to the rise of the NOMs. It has been around for a long, long time. You can read more about it in President Lee’s April 1971 General Conference talk, The Iron Rod. In it, you can read this quote, attributed to the Apostle John A. Widstoe, “The self-called liberal [in the Church] is usually one who has broken with the fundamental principles or guiding philosophy of the group to which he belongs. … He claims membership in an organization but does not believe in its basic concepts; and sets out to reform it by changing its foundations.”
In other words, these people really do believe that they can and should endeavor to change the church by the things they write, by the attitudes they express and by the demands they make upon the leaders of the church. It is simply foreign to them to contemplate that the Brethren know what they are doing and do not need to be told how to run the church. They love to come up with their own theories and explanations for inspired changes in the church by saying, “See, I told you so. They changed that because we complained long and loud enough.”
If I know anything about the Bloggernacle, what I have shared could easily be ripped apart by any number of prominent bloggers, many of whom I respect and read. Just as they are amazed at how “conservative, intolerant, unempathetic and exclusionary” I am towards their doubting and questioning methods, I am equally amazed at how disrespectful and less than faithful their methods of picking apart, questioning, and even mocking are towards the church leaders.
I’ll stop now. I could go on and on. If this is off the mark of your post, just go ahead and delete it. I’ll pick it up on my blog sometime in the near future. It’s one I’ve been wanting to write for a long time. I hope I have not detracted from the wonderful uplifting message of your testimony and your clear love of the Lord, the Church, the leaders and especially of the Temples. We are indeed a part of the One True Church, the only one with the keys of the priesthood. Cheers!
This is an appropriate post for this time. Wasn’t this the crux of the First Presidency message for July as well? Sustaining the priesthood means supporting even when you don’t understand or don’t agree. If you hold that body to be inspired, then you have to remain consistent or else you come to selective inspiration, which is never good when the storms of life come, and come they will.
In D&C 1:30, the Lord uses “only” to describe not just “true,” but “true and living.”
Do you think this is significant? Is there a difference between a “true church,” and a “true and living church?” If so, a more nuanced approach to this scripture may be appropriate.
I’ve always thought that “living” as describing a church, implies the presence of the Spirit…because spirit brings life. Joseph Smith taught that a distinguishing feature of the Church was the gift of the Holy Ghost, hence making the church “living.”
So do you think its possible for a church to be true and dead? To be false and living?
In any case, the Lord makes clear that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the only “true and living” church, but somehow I think that means something different than what Latter-day saints mean when they toss around the phrase “only true church.”
The 10th Article of Faith makes clear that there is truth yet to be revealed, implying that the current church is at some level “truth-deficient.” Does this have any bearing on how we quantify “true” in reference to the Church? Or does it mean void of falsehoods? Later prophets have corrected, amended,or even discredited statements of past prophets, suggesting that even with revelation, the Church is on a journey and quest to obtain truth, but may be associated with falsehoods along the way.
Maybe I’m thinking too hard about this, but a cut-and-dry “one true church” vs. multitudes of “false churches” seems like a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of the scriptures and the words of the prophets.
I do believe that Church is the only repository of legitimate priesthood authority, and as such, ordinances can only be divinely recognized if performed within the Church. However, as proxy temple work suggests, this is more of the Church’s universal responsibility to process the paper-work and validate the procedures for all of humanity, rather than a pronouncement that all other belief systems are little more than highways to hell.
I think the general notion is that those of other faiths will be taught in the spirit world and once their ordinance work is complete, they can join the Shepherd’s “one true” fold, but I think Latter-day saints will also be instructed and taught on very similar levels. The ordinance work will have already been done, but I wonder if the rift between the members and non-members will be as wide as we like to think….
I’m not sure why you characterize Bloggernacle blogs as liberal or “new-order” blogs, and I disagree that they criticize the one true church claim. Sure, they downplay the harsher sectarian implications of the Great Apostasy as it was previously depicted in LDS talks and publications, but so have more recent remarks by LDS leaders, to the extent they address the topic. Read Elder Ballard’s remarks in his recent book Our Search for Happiness, for example. It’s a much softer line than was previously preached on the topic of the apostasy. So maybe the Mormon Matters take on the present LDS view deserves a hearing.
Curious about why that “and living” was so oddly interupting the flow of the “only true church” phrase I had been submerged in from my youth, I investigated what it is doing there. When I looked at all the uses of “true” and “living” in the Bible, I found that the passages in which those themes occurred correspond point for point with the themes of D&C 1. For example, Jer. 10:10 speaks of “the true God, the Living God” in a Voice of Warning passage. “True vine” occurs in discussions of priesthood. “Living waters” refers both to the gifts of the Holy Spirit and the ordinances of sacrament and baptism. Scripture is also “living water.” “Tree of Life” is a temple image, as is the context of the “living way” in Hebrews. There is more, but it all points the same direction, and accounts for every verse and theme in D&C 1.
So I think “true and living” functions as a merism, a succinct way of expressing the themes of D&C 1 overall. Notice that “only” is modified by “with which I the Lord am well pleased, speaking unto the church collectively and not individually.” “Well pleasingness” relative to the themes encompassed by “true and living” is the distinction, not exclusiveness.
D&C 1 expressly states that the voice of the Lord us unto all men, that besides speaking to Joseph Smith, he also spoke to unspecified others, and that he is willing to reveal his word unto all flesh. In three places, the Lord expressly refutes the notion of exclusive truth and revelation.
D&C 1 states of LDS leaders that “inasmuch as they have erred, it shall be made manifest: and inasmuch as they sought wisdom, they might be instructed.” So he expressly refutes the notion of static, unchanging understanding and infallible leadership. It means that human imperfection is part of the package, and not a reason to reject the LDS message. It is going to grow and change as we do. The seed grows into a tree, not a giant seed.
D&C 1 does not contain the popular phrase “only true church.” Do those three words accurately convey what D&C 1: 30 takes 30 words to say? Are the extra words mere verbosity, mere rhetorical flourish, or do they have meaningful content. The “only true” phrase implies, “exclusive, perfect, correct.” Yet we are told expressly that that the leaders can make mistakes, and that truth and virtue are not exclusive to the LDS church. “I the Lord am no respecter of persons.” “Speaking to the church collectively, and not individually…” I think the context of D&C 1 expressly undercuts implications the common-place cliche, “only true church.” D&C 1 spells out distinctions that are expressly non-exclusive with respect to truth, virtue, and even revelation. We are not yet perfect as indivuals, which is a relief. We don’t have to be perfect to be gathered in. Just repentant and repenting.
And what does it mean by “church”? Only true body of doctrines? No. Only virtuous people. No. We are warned in D&C 1 against such thinking. The only people that God cares about? No. What then? A calling out, a gathering of people, who are given much and are accountable for what they have been given of what is “true and living” provided through the calling of Joseph Smith. Called and given commandments, given power to translate the Book of Mormon and proclaim the gospel, given priesthood which authorizes ordinances. The very things that distinguish the LDS faith in practice, claims to modern revelation, priesthood, and temples, are the very true and living themes that distinguish the LDS faith as “well pleasing” in D&C 1.
That is how I read it, FWIW. I gave a presentation at a Sunstone on the topic many years ago. The difference makes for more tolerant and robust reading, in my view. And the distinction of “only well pleasing, true and living church” is quite sufficient for me.
Kevin Christensen
Pittsburgh, PA
Let me see if I’m understanding you correctly.
The claim that we are “the only true church” to you means:
1) We are the sole institution possessing authority to perform necessary ordinances to allow people to gain salvation/exaltation.
2) We have more truth than other churches/religions do.
3) We have more communication from God than other churches/religions do.
etc.
If I’m following you correctly I don’t see how 2 & 3 follow from the claim about being the ‘only’ true church. Don’t these sound like they should fall under a claim of being ‘the most true’; rather than the ‘only’ true church? It seems that it would make more sense to say that, “I believe our church to be the only institution with the authority to perform essential ordinances to allow human beings to enjoy eternal life. I also believe that our church has the most ‘good’ when compared with other churches/religions in terms of ‘truth’, ‘inspiration’, and ‘direct access to God’.”
Is this essentially your position? If it is, it would seem that your disagreement with ‘new order’ Mormon bloggers would not be over the ‘only’ claim at all; but instead to what degree ‘most’ is an appropriate label for ‘goods’ such as ‘truth’, etc.
Thank you for your post. I agree with your observation on comments made by some people on the bloggernacle that try to minimize the authority of the leaders.
Just as a child grows to adulthood and is taught precept on precept, so are the Church leaders and its members. Just as Christ grew and waxed strong in spirit, Luke 1:80, so does the Church have to grow and wax strong in preparation for the second coming of Christ.
Because the Church has not received all of the truth to be revealed, doesn’t diminish the truth that the Church does have, nor does it diminish the authority of the Church. There is no other Church on the earth that has been given this authority from God.
Article of Faith # 9, “We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.”
Aha, I would like to comment on a couple of your points.
“Maybe I’m thinking too hard about this, but a cut-and-dry “one true church” vs. multitudes of “false churches” seems like a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of the scriptures and the words of the prophets.”
“…a gross oversimplification and misrepresentation of the scriptures…”. – I’m confused by your statement. Please show me in the scriptures where the Lord opens the door to many churches and a wide path to return to him. “The Old Testament is filled with stories and experiences to help the people understand there is one true God. “One Lord, one faith, one baptism.” Eph 4:5. Christ even warns the apostles in Matt 16:6, 12; Mark 8:15; Luke 12:1, “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the leaven of Herod…”
Also your comment, ” However, as proxy temple work suggests, this is more of the Church’s universal responsibility to process the paper-work and validate the procedures for all of humanity, rather than a pronouncement that all other belief systems are little more than highways to hell.”
I guess I missed that part in the temple.
1. The plan of salvation is based on glory. All kingdoms will be a glory to the people who receive them. D&C 76:89 – 92; 1 Cor. 14:40 -41.
2. I know you know this, but we are among the few Christian churches that do NOT believe that people who are not of our faith will be condemned to hell. Many of these Christian churches even condemn innocent children to hell if there weren’t baptized.
Of course everyone will be learning in the next life including members, I don’t think anyone disagrees; that is what it’s all about.
The Church leaders have never claimed: we know everything, we don’t make mistakes, and we are perfect. Just the opposite, we are in this mire knee deep with the entire human race. We’re learning, we’re growing, and we are striving to give more , be more humble and be less selfish. By no means do members of the Church hold the corner on good works, charity or good people.
However, what the Church does hold is the authority to perform ordinances, teach with authority and receive revelation.
Aha, perhaps there is confusion between authority and perfection. The church has the first, it does not have the latter.
Bryce, I’m curious about your equation of “liberal” Mormons with “New Order Mormons.” Is there a difference between the two in your mind? Can one be a liberal Mormon but not be a NOM?
As I’ve shown above briefly, I’m not the first to use the term “only” to describe the “true Church.” Prophets and apostles have used the term. I’m not going start bearing my testimony that I believe the Church is the “most true” church. I have never heard that out of the mouths of the prophets. It seems to me like a compromise for the sake of inclusivity.
You’re missing my point. It’s ridiculous to say “we are the only true church” when you mean “we have more truth than other churches do”. This is equivalent to taking “John was the only graduate from BYU this year” to mean “John graduated summa cum laude from BYU this year”. In the quotes you employ above, prophets use the “only true” language to refer to authority, and not the #2 or 3 (incoherent) sense that I list above. I don’t see the bloggers you admonish using it any differently. In this light it seems that everyone involved agrees on the “only institution with authority” usage of “only true”.
In short, the disagreement you have with these bloggers is not over the “only true” language, but understanding our church as having “the most truth”, etc. IMO you should instead provide a way to argue for us having “the most truth” rather than trying (ineffectively) to lump it in with the discourse of “only true”.
To be clear, I’m not saying that “the only true church” is an unclear designation, but that it is a claim about authority and not about “truth” amounts.
If the Church has the most truth of any denomination on Earth, then I don’t think it is ridiculous to say that it is “the only true church.” God didn’t restore the “mostly” true church. He restored the “only” true Church.
Personally I tend to take God’s word at face value. So when he says that A) This church is the only true church, and B) If there is anything lovely or of good report or praiseworthy we seek after it; I take it to mean that there are ‘truths’ outside of the church, and they are good. (A), therefore does not mean “truth only comes from the church”, but the church is exclusive in a different sense. This ‘sense’ seems to be understood by today’s prophets as authority.
Now, if your position is that “only” is close enough to “most”, then I would say that you are manipulating the language of the revelation and the quotes of the brethren to suit your needs.
The truths (2) of the restored gospel are taught through the priesthood, and revelation (3) for mankind is received through the priesthood.
How does this not contradict your initial admission that “there is much truth found in all religions of the world”?
I find it interesting that the concept of keys is absent from the ‘keystone’ of our religion, the Book of Mormon. As a counter-example, we have Alma the elder who was one of the priests that King Noah installed after he ousted the priests that his righteous father had put in place. After Alma fled and began teaching the words of Abinadi, he established a church of Christ. Where did he get his authority? Not from wicked King Noah. He got his authority from God. I see no substantiation for the idea of keys in the Book of Mormon.
Is this important? Considering that the Book of Mormon contains the ‘fulness of the Gospel,’ I think it does merit consideration of just what God intended for those who bear His ‘authority.’
It is amazing to me that such a basic principle could be so controversial. Wasn’t Joseph Smith told to join “none” of the churches. Wasn’t the priesthood restored by heavenly messangers. If the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is not the only true church then what is the point of belonging to it. Wouldn’t any church do? Anyone who has joined the church, as well as those who enter the temple are asked if they believe this is the only true church. You either believe it or you don’t and if you don’t I have a difficult time understanding how the church could be more than a social gathering place for you. Sounds to me like it’s the typical “buffet” gospel approach. Just choose the doctrines you like and pass over the others that are difficult for you to swallow.
“The only true church” doctrine is a basic core belief of the restored gospel. If not true Joseph Smith was not a true prophet and was a hoax. So is the issue really about the “only true church” or about Joseph Smith being a true prophet of God?? I testify that he was. This is the ONLY true church on the earth today.
I think it is a statement about truth amounts as well…. “Only” is not close enough to “most.” Only means only.
Do you see why these two statements cannot both hold? If “only” means “only” and we have truth but are not the only source of truth, then we are not the only “true church” in the sense of “truth amounts”.
My entire point has been that your disagreement with “new order” LDSs is about “truth amounts”. They do not disagree with you in the sense that the church is the only source of authority to perform necessary ordinances, but in the sense that the difference in “truth amounts” between our church and other churches/religions is not as large as you make it out to be. It seems that if you want to admonish them you should argue for a large gap in “truth amounts” between our church and others.
My hunch is that you incorporate the language of “the only true church” to make the argument because it is easier to find current church leadership using the phrase. However, current church leadership use “the only true church” in line with claims to authority and not truth amounts. Why don’t you find some quotes from the current prophet/apostles that talk about the “falseness” or “lack of truth” in other religions? Or how our church is superior in truth amounts than these other religions?
The truth God has bestowed on His restored Church is infinitely greater than that which He has given to all the world combined.
NONE of the quotes you provide from ANY of the living apostles/prophets substantiate this position. I reaffirm, this is YOUR own position, and you have been unable to demonstrate that it is in congruence with current church teaching.
Perhaps you can explain to me how any of the quotes you use demonstrate your point.
I take Pres. Hinkley to say, “If the historical or theological claims of the church are not true, then it is false.”
I take Elder Holland to mean, “All who claim that the canon is closed is wrong.”
I have no idea how you get to “The truth God has bestowed on His restored Church is infinitely greater than that which He has given to all the world combined,” from here.
Bryce asked “Would you disapprove of President Eyring saying that “this is the true Church, the only true Church“?”
President Eyring can say whatever he wants. I sustain him, and all the general authorities. I’ve even looked up “sustain” in the dictionary, so that I am fully aware of all the implications of what I do when I sustain them.
All I offered is how I read the D&C 1, which I understand to be the Lord’s formal setting out the reasons for Joseph Smith’s call and the distinctions of LDS church. When I first found that I was seeing something I did not expect to see, I checked all the D&C commentaries I could find. What I noticed is that not one of the commentaries offered a close reading of the key verse nor of the overall context provided by D&C 1. All merely substituted the three word cultural cliche for the actual revealed text. My reading is my own, not authoritative. But I am trying to account for all 30 words in the verse, and their context in the section, not boiling them down to the three that say what I expect to hear. Multiplying opinions and authorities has its place, but it is not the same thing as conducting or providing careful analysis of the text in question.
Others may read the text differently than I do. Fine. But in doing so, it would help to take seriously all thirty words in the verse. We could, I suppose edit actual text down to “only true church” deleting the source of potential disagreement, or, as I think, a source of potential enlightenment.
Kevin Christensen
Pittsburgh, PA
Bryce,
I have not yet distinguished the difference between liberal and “new order” Mormons, if there is one. How would you define them? My father-in-law is a Democrat and more “liberal,” but I would not say he is a “new order” Mormon. I think the “new order” thing has been defined over the last 10-15 years probably, but I haven’t pinpointed it.
New Order Mormons define themselves as “those who no longer believe some (or much) of the dogma or doctrines of the LDS Church, but who want to maintain membership for cultural, social, or even spiritual reasons.” I consider myself a moderately liberal Mormon (both religiously and politically), but definetely not a New Order Mormon, as I still believe all LDS doctrine. I may have a more expansive or different view of what constitutes LDS doctrine, but I remain a firm believer in Mormonism. While I know many liberal bloggers around the bloggernacle, I know significantly less New Order Mormons who participate regularly around the ‘nacle. So I’m a little confused by your conflation of the two groups.
Does any other religion possess prophets of God? Does any other religion possess the authority of God? Does any other religion possess God’s holy temples? etc.
Bryce,
Given that the answer to your set of questions is “yes” in nearly every case, perhaps you are not qualified to speak to the question of what other religions do or do not have. Perhaps you would say, “Oh, yes, of course others have prophets, temples, etc, but OURS are true prophets, true temples, etc.” Of course, this simply raises the question of authority that SmallAxe has posed.
Hi Bryce,
Can I encourage you to consider the possibility that by the “true church” we mean something more like the “authentic” church? This moves the issue onto grounds that more easily transition into the need for, and value of, claims of exclusiveness.
Ideas like “truth” really resist attempts to somehow quantify them. This is particularly important when we consider that the central ideas of Christianity, that God has saved us through the death and resurrection of Christ and that we please God by responding in love and obedience, are pretty much available to anyone who cares to open the NT. Were we to somehow measure “truth” we could not do so by simply totaling up doctrinal points on each side.
Does any other religion possess prophets of God?…
This is a different strategy to prove your argument. Instead of relying on quotes from general authorities you now compile a list of “truths” in an attempt to show that “our list is longer than yours”. It isn’t difficult to find living prophets testifying of these “truths”, but it is difficult to find them employing these truths in the manner that you are. Namely, to prove that the truths of our religion are “infinitely greater than that which He has given to all the world combined”.
We don’t want to compare apples and oranges here.
Exactly the reason your new strategy doesn’t work either.
Hi Bryce,
I think I must resist your suggestion that I have somehow compromised of the claim of exclusiveness. Perhaps you misread. I did not say that the church was “mostly true” or that it was the “most authentic” as you have asserted. I believe I used the definite article in both cases, while you have disingenuously inserted other qualifiers and attributed them by implication to me.
When we talk about our church as “the true church” one way to unpack this claim is to say that it is “the authentic church.” Once again, note the definite articles, intact on both expressions. The latter expression, I believe, carries with it the idea that the church is unique in the sense that it is God’s church, designated by him as the means and manner by which we are organized to respond in love and obedience. Such truth as is necessary or natural to God’s own organization naturally follows, but there is really no need to try to tote them up for comparison.
Whoa! Nibley and BRM! I’m sure both would be horrified… 🙂
Hi Bryce,
If your first person plural pronoun was not inclusive, I find it hard to understand in what sense your post was a response to mine. And although the results of your search for “authentic church” are interesting, they are also not a substantive response unless you wish to advocate that we must invariably express ourselves in precisely those words used by church leaders.
These things, however, are of no matter in the larger picture. Is there some sense in which referring to the true church as the authentic church is a compromise of the claim to exclusiveness?
May I suggest that being the only true church does not necessarily reflect what kind of condition it is currently in. As Verlan Anderson once said. Those who claim to be the Lords people can rest assured that it is not a matter of IF but WHEN they will go into apostasy.
After reading section 84 one might refer to it as the only true church which is under condemnation for taking the Book of Mormon and other scriptures lightly.
After reading section 112 one might refer to it as the only true church which along with the rest of the world has been overcome by gross darkness and now ALL FLESH is corrupt… including Mormon flesh.
After reading section 124 and acknowledging that the Saints were forced to flee the holy place and did not complete either the temple or the boarding house by the deadline given by the Lord, one might refer to it as the only true church that has been rejected by the Lord.
After reading the consequences of not living consecration after being commanded to live it as listed in multiple sections of the scriptures…. well you get my drift.
Bryce,
I’ve been on vacation so I’m several days behind on my emails, but a friend just sent me a link to this post and expressed surprise that you were speaking negatively about my previous Mythbusters post that has been sitting in the MM archives for several months now. I am not concerned with people disagreeing with me. I am concerned, however, when it appears that someone has completely misunderstood something I have written, as well as my intentions for writing it.
You and I have never met, and I suppose that is the reason you may have mislabeled me and/or my post as being representative of “New Order Mormons” or “liberal” thinking. While I certainly aim to be open-minded, I don’t think either of those labels apply to me. Although you cite my Mythbusters post as an example of New Order Mormon thinking, you might be surprised to know that I’ve never visited the New Order Mormon website, although I’ve heard one exists.
I was also surprised that my Mythbusters post was singled out as representative of “liberal” thinking because a number of self-described “conservative” Mormons commented favorably on that post when I originally posted it. I think they reason they did so is that they understood my message correctly. It appears, however, that you have greatly misunderstood it.
The great irony to me in all of this is that my Mythbusters post is actually a apologetic work, or at least that’s how I intended it. And so it is greatly disappointing to me for it to be singled out as an example of a “liberal” or “New Order Mormon” attempt to “dilute” the Church’s “one true Church” claim. If you look at my archive on Mormon Matters, you’ll notice my first two forays into the blogging world were apologetic in nature, i.e., in defense of the Church and its claims. My first post at MM, “10 Things Every Mormon Should Know,” received a favorable review in the FAIR Newsletter the month after it was posted. I was greatly pleased that the LDS apologists at FAIR looked favorably upon my work in defense of the Church.
My “Mythbusters” post was done in that same spirit. I have a few friends who are very uncomfortable with the “one true Church” claim because they think it sounds so exclusive, narrow-minded, and ignorant of the many wonderful contributions of the other divinely-inspired servants of God through whom God has worked throughout man’s history, many of whom have been leaders or members of other religions. My Mythbusters post was aimed at busting the myth that the “one true Church” claim requires Mormons to believe a host of negative things about churches or religions, or that it requires us to ignore or turn a blind eye to the inspiration that exists outside the Church.
As I explained in my introductory paragraphs of the Mythbusters post, too many of us Mormons go too far in the implications we draw from the “one true Church” claim, particularly as it relates to disclaiming or failing to acknowledge the divine inspiration that is abundantly present outside the Church. In short, I was trying to focus readers on the main point Elder James E. Faust made when he succinctly stated: “We do not claim that inspiration is limited to the Latter-day Saints.”
Of course, our belief that the LDS Church is the “one true Church” means, as Elder Eyring recently reminded us, that it is the only Church where the priesthood keys reside. That is not a point that I took issue with in my post.
What I did address was Elder Faust’s point that being the “one true Church” does not mean we believe we have a monopoly on inspiration and truth. That statement is a “no brainer” to well-informed Mormons, but sadly, it seems too many Mormons have mistakenly believe our exclusive claim to priesthood keys equates to an exclusive claim to truth, inspiration, goodness, divine guidance and communication, etc. That misinterpretation of the “one true Church” claim then becomes an unnecessary stumblingblock to their faith.
I was hoping my Mythbusters post could help remove that unnecessary stumblingblock by showing Mormons, by using the words of modern Prophets, that a Mormon can believe both that the LDS Church is the one true Church, and yet believe that Mohammned, Buddha, Mother Theresa, the Wesley Brothers, Gandhi, etc. were all servants of God (Elders Oaks’ words, not mine). Again, that’s a “no brainer” statement to well-informed Mormons, but I had noticed a number of Bloggernacle participants had failed to apprehend that important point.
Bruce, I am grateful there are people like you who are out there defending the Church and the faith. However, I am saddened and disappointed when I or something I have written is misidentified as a subtle attempt to dilute or undermine faith in the Church’s claims. As explained above, that is precisely the opposite of what I intended to do, which makes it all the more ironic. I admire your zeal and forgive your misunderstanding of my Mythbusters post, as well as your assumptions about my intentions in writing it, as well as your implied assumptions about what kind of Mormon I am. This experience has shown me once again that words are inherently ambiguous and susceptible to multiple interpretations and, therefore, readers can often misunderstand the author, and that authors must not only write to be understood, but also write such that they cannot be misunderstood.